>When I make the argument that no one is able to acquire their own NMR
data, the faculty say that in industry they do not have >>to know,
therefore it is not important.
I can't speak for all of industry, but here at our analytical facility,
we run many many different types of NMR analyses from standard 1H, 13C,
to 31P and 11B and all types of 2D. Additionally preconcentration is a
luxury not often possible for us, so I end up analyzing for <100ppm
components in process samples (w/ non-D solvent systems) and they want
decent quantitation. Without tweaking parameters, there is no way I
could do my job. Tweaking parameters takes a fairly thorough
understanding of NMR theory and practical knowledge. I won't even get
into spectral interpretation. So whichever faculty members are telling
you students don't need to understand NMR in industry probably hasn't
been in industry. They are wrong.
Jim Simpson
Invista
Orange, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Facey [mailto:GAFACEY_at_science.uottawa.ca]
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:20 AM
To: William C. Stevens
Cc: ammrl_at_chemnmr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: user competency problems
Hi Bill,
I hear ya!
It has been the same for me over the last few years. Years ago, my
training used to incorporate a short competancy exam and I found that it
at least got students thinking and I feel it made them more aware of
what NMR spectroscopy was all about. They all knew how to tune probes,
correctly establish the lock signal, and they could recognize problems
with NMR results when they arose. I too had to tone down my training as
the attitude of many of the faculty here is that students are to spend
their time at the bench in the lab and not at the console (such as it
is) of an NMR spectrometer.
We now have autotuning probes and a robotic sample changer. I resisted
these purchases to the amusement and disgust of the faculty arguing that
no one would learn anything about NMR anymore. The only thing you need
to know to get a spectrum is what room the spectrometer is in. Many of
thecurrent bunch of students have training on all of the equipment and
can still run a spectrum the old fashoned way but I find they are more
and more taking the path of least resistance and using the autosamplers
autoshimming and autotuning probes. I'm sure that the incoming students
will only use the automated systems and will not even know what locking
or shimming are, let alone recognizing problems with their data.
When I make the argument that no one is able to acquire their own NMR
data, the faculty say that in industry they do not have to know,
therefore it is not important. We are a university, I tell them. This
is the ONLY chance the students have to LEARN NMR. High throughput and
efficiency should NOT be a priority, EDUCATION should.
I feel that students are being short changed. God help us when the
automated sytems are in need of repair !
There is a place for automation, however I feel that a university is not
that place. The instrument companies have done a fantastic job at
manufacturing very efficient productive systems. I am truly impressed
by the efficiency! If I was a facility manager in industry where the
dollar (rather than education) is the bottom line I would certainly
insist on such systems.
With total automation being more and more common, I'm sure that NMR
facility managers like us are a dying breed. Where will they learn NMR?
The NMR manager of the future will be a product of the market demand of
the instrument companies.
Glenn
Date sent: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:25:44 -0500
To: ammrl_at_ammrl.org
From: "William C. Stevens" <wstevens_at_siu.edu>
Subject: user competency problems
> Dear Colleagues:
>
> I have created problems for myself with regard to the competency level
> of my user base and I would like your reflections and suggestions.
>
> One mistake I made was backing off on what I required my users to
> endure in terms of training from me. I used to insist that they at
> least understand the arm-waving vector explanation of
> inversion-recovery before they were allowed to practice on the
> instruments and get passwords. Neither the users nor their professors
> appreciated this and I felt like I was expending a lot of effort
> teaching this material and getting no positive reinforcement in
> return, so I relaxed my standards.
>
> Then I got a decent graduate assistant and I turned over to him a lot
> of the training load, and he was even less demanding than me.
> Competency declined further.
>
> Now, I have VNMRJ and PFGs, which allows users with no competency
> whatsoever to obtain decent NMR data. The consequence I find evermore
> vexing is that my users are getting progressively more incompetent,
> not even taking care to use the walkup "no-brainer" interface
> correctly. They cannot be troubled even to make sure the solvent is
> set correctly.
>
> First the faculty encouraged me to be lazy about what I required NMR
> users to know. Then the software encouraged me to be lazy. Now,
> formerly competent users are shifting their brains into neutral upon
> entering the NMR lab and are causing problems that they wouldn't have
> caused if they had been here 15 years ago.
>
> My job is beginning to feel an awful lot like that of the Wal-Mart
> Associate who monitors the automated check-out stations and runs
> frantically to assist every bonehead customer who gets into trouble.
> I think I am working more instead of less and, even worse, I'm feeling
> separated from my previous level of understanding of what the software
> is making the instrument do.
>
> Yesterday, a user needed a 1-D nOe. Instead of poring over the VJ
> manuals to figure it out, I fired up the 6.1C emulation instead and
> got him a result. I'm not saying VJ is bad, but I think I'm seeing
> user-friendly produce user-stupid, and maybe director-stupid as well.
>
> Bill
>
> William C. Stevens, Ph.D. Director
> Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Facility
> Southern Illinois University
> Carbondale, IL 62901
> 618-453-6498 voice / -6408 fax / 521-9892 cell http://opie.nmr.siu.edu
>
Glenn A. Facey, Ph.D.
NMR Facility Manager
University of Ottawa
mailto:gafacey_at_science.uottawa.ca
http://www.science.uottawa.ca/nmr
Received on Fri Apr 07 2006 - 17:51:31 MST